So who loves the Burberries? Every time I smell one, I think they all smell so much alike, I can barely distinguise most of them from the others. They certainly fit a certain demographic, which skews either young or folks that just like bright, fun fragrances, which almost all of the Burberries are. Burberry Gold has been my favorite up to this point because it’s fuller, richer, there’s a little vanilla in it, but it keeps the bright, fresh aspect that Burberry does so well (along with super-cute sandals… lord, I could have bought three pair on my way through Nordstrom yesterday, but Harry dragged me on past), but adds to it in a way that differentiates it in a pretty great way.
My niece loves the Burberries, and she should, she’s 20, and they fit her, and it’s what she should smell like – bright, young, cheerful, beautiful.
The Beat in its edp form seems very much the same as the rest of the Burberry crowd. It has notes of bergamot, mandarin, Ceylon tea, cardamom, pink pepper, bluebell, iris, white musk, vetiver and cedarwood. I don’t dislike it, I just don’t really think much of it one way or the other, it smells like…. well, the rest of them! But The Elixir, which is the parfum’ish version of The Beat, is much, much better. In all the places where a Burberry generally goes a little too brightly forced, The Beat Elixir zigs into something more interesting. There’s definitely more iris and tea, and it reminds me a little of that uber-expensive Dior No. 8 Particuliere thingie that I like so much. So if you generally like Burberries, but find too many of them the same or not interesting enough, you may like The Beat Elixir. It’s hit my Favorite Burberry list. Not to mention the bottle, which is super-adorable.
Now a question that is being hotly debated in my family, as my sister is dragging in as many people as possible and still finding no one that agrees with her, so I’m involving y’all. A woman in her 40s or 50s or 60s is dating, and she makes an above-decent income, do you feel like she should date men closer in income to her, or does it make any difference? My thinking is a woman who makes good money, which she’s gotten through her own efforts, has certain beliefs and characteristics that made financial stability an important factor in her life, enough that she has pursued that financial independence and made it a priority in her life. Not the most important thing, let’s say, but up there on the list. If a guy is in his 40s and 50s and makes very little money, obviously that isn’t important to him and probably never will be, which, to me, would suggest right off the bat that they would have a mismatch of “crap that matters to them personally.” They would eventually run into problems like if he couldn’t do things with her because he couldn’t afford it, or she had to pay for him, which he might accept or might get really mad about her offering to do, it would lead to resentment and conflict and unbalance that relationship. Now, this in no way says that people who make less money aren’t wonderful, but my belief is people should be realistic and see mismatches well ahead of time and generally avoid them – and a financial mismatch is no different from any other interest. I’d propose the same argument if it was a man in his 40s, 50s or 60s as well and looking for a woman in a similar age range and not looking for a really young twinkie. Agree or disagree?
It has been my experience, and I wish this wasn’t so, that money, income level, always matters, in all relationships.
Even friendships between people with widely differing incomes can be strained. Where to eat, where to go, what to leave out when talking — all of it. And I’ve been on both sides of the issue. Right now I’m on the more affluent side, but I still remember when I wasn’t, and how I felt when clueless moneyed friends flapped on and on about their expensive vacations or bitched about how the cleaning lady messed something up, when they knew damned well that I was having trouble paying my rent.
You get used to a certain lifestyle after a while. And things like impulsive dinners out, weekends away (or full bottles) you just get used to, too. I’m married, but married late, and remember dating poor guys when I was making good money. I didn’t mind, but sooner or later they always did. No matter how enlightened we think we are as a society, a well-paid woman seeing a poor man elicits snickers, especially if he is younger. As does the man. And there are some very unpleasant words used to describe that situation. Another sad fact of life: people may disapprove a bit when a rich man marries a poor (but beautiful) young woman, but they’re concerned with his behavior, not hers.
(Of course the same goes for an older, wealthier gay man and his poor but nubile companion, but that’s another subject…)
And so I think that, like most things, it’s more difficult for the woman. It’s hard enough to have a successful relationship, of any kind, without this particular issue running underneath like a virus-checker. Any woman or man about to embark upon such a relationship needs to know exactly what they’re getting into.
Dang.
Olfacta,
Could you have put it any more succinctly? ;)) I must agree with you on every point here, though others may have had different experiences. Like you, I’ve been on both sides of the fence and it’s tough going no matter what. I’ve yet to find the Sugar Daddy, alas, but am open to all offers, no matter the potential for castigation (the fact that I am no longer nubile renders this point mostly moot….but hope springs eternal[-o<
I love The Beat–I’ve been wearing my samples on & off for weeks now. For awhile I kept the carded sample on my desk. But then again, I really like Brit EDT. And I’m at the edge of the “bright young things category” of 18-25 still, so it works.
As to the dating/income disparity issue, its all relative. I don’t think it should matter, but I also don’t think it’s wise for a woman to financially support a man with no ambition, skills, etc. But to give credit where credit is due, many of the fellas have been doing this for some of us ladies for centuries, no?
And certainly many admirable careers are low-paying, but by no means an indication of irresponsibility: teachers, firemen, librarians, policemen, civil servants,small business owners, and artists of all stripes.
For me personally, similar income, education and religious beliefs are important. I would resent the heck out of a guy who made less money than me. Similar incomes, education and sexual compatibility were important in my 20’s and it’s important twenty three years later. Money and sex are the hot button issues in a relationship. If it’s just a fling no big deal, but do people still have flings after the age of 30? I don’t know being married for 23 years, lol.
Re: Burberries-
I like them, especially London Men. But I’m not moved to buy them.
Re: Dating.
Minefield indeed …
What a thorny subject.
Honey- just enjoy yourself, and don’t get taken advantage of…
Make sure he appreciates you, as you are.
Worry about commitment later.
When’s the last time you just had fun ?
You’ve been a highly responsible doo-bee.
That’s all I’M sayin’…
[And I love you]
aaaaah dating. Such a minefield.
I was widowed in 2000 and have been sticking my toe back in the dating pond on and off for the last two years. At the age of 50 (as of two weeks ago), I meet very few ambitous young men who feel threatened by the fact that I’m a respected professional and have every intention of continuing my career as long as my health and passion for it continues. Men tend to want to date a woman 10-15 years younger by this time in their lives, so if I want to date, it’s the 65-year olds that are available to me. Many of them are retired, or semi-retired, and their current income isn’t much. But they’ve had past careers, made their money and invested it wisely. If anything, most encourage me to keep doing what I love doing and aren’t the least bit concerned with the size of my paycheck.
I did, however, encounter one fellow who wanted me to submit to a personal background check and a credit report before he’d consider a steady dating relationship. I suppose he was only protecting himself and his family but I was mortally insulted. I asked myself if I would ever make that request of someone I wanted to date and was happy that my honest answer was no. I trust my instincts with people and I can generally spot a troublemaker.
Dating sure isn’t what it once was. Not that it was ever perfect, but I remember it as being so much simpler years ago.
Anyhoo…to move away from the specifics and back to the general, I don’t think the size of one’s income should matter at all while dating. It might make sense to have a heart-to-heart talk about it before you contemplated taking a relationship to the next level. But if you love the guy’s socks off and he feels the same, you’ll find a way to make it work. 🙂
Griefus! Unless you were dating a high-level political figure or some famous celeb I can’t imagine someone asking that of you! Wow! And let’s face it, political figures/celebs don’t ask – they just do it.
That request was a Gift to you, Teri. Take it and run!! Imagine what kind of life you’d have, seriously dating a wacko like that. The only thought that comes to mind there is: Inflated Sense of Self.
Holy crap! No way, and good for you for saying no. There are just some things you can’t do and shouldn’t do.
I usually know when I’m being bullshitted, so it’s nothing I’d ever ask for myself.
yikes, it is a brave new world out there :::shuddering:::
I think a couple in this situation can see from the off that the financial issue might become important, so I say get it out of the closet to start with and deal with it early on. That way, habits and attitudes are formed from the start, rather than having to be changed six months down the line. If two people are really compatible the relationship will work and if they aren’t it won’t.
But how do you know the other person is being honest? I’m a really trusting soul and have been fooled by people I love more than once and lied to about who they are and what they want/feel.
So while I think a good conversation is a great place to start, I think most people will say anything to keep a relationship going if they are in love, even if it’s a lie. Been there, done that.
I love Brit Gold, like Brit Red, and feel totally meh about all the others.
As for money, he must make at least as much as I do, and preferably a whole lot more. I like nice presents and vacations.
That’s pretty much where I’m at. I want him in the same ballpark, ideally, and I’d be happy with a ton more, if he were still a good person that treated me like I should be.
Well, I went daydreaming there for a sec.
One of the things I noticed when I first moved to DC 15 years ago and again when I left six months ago, is the script for introductions. You are ALWAYS introduced by name and occupation. If no one is around to introduce you, the first question you are asked is “what do you do?” There are entire geographies in this country (and the world) where that is considered impolite. But in DC (and LA) it’s a way to know how useful you are and to categorize you by worth to the speaker. I tried out several answers over time (always the curious writer) and discovered the answer that got the most favorable reaction was “I’m an independently wealthy dilettante,” and the one that caused people to spin on their Manolo’s to get away) was “I teach high school science.” Which explains a lot.
That’s really interesting about the introductions. My friends and I have a rule when we get together, “No talk about work.” Unless it’s funny stories about weird people encountered. Or teacher friends who have students who do funny things. If I’m ever in those career inquiry situations, I always answer, “I manage an Elvis memorabilia shoppe.” Which is true and usually a great conversation opener at parties. Even the snobbish are taken aback and somewhat intrigued.
I think Denver falls in the mmiddle somewhere. it’s not the first question, but it is up there on the list.
I wear Burberry London for Men all of the time. The stuff just smell great. None of the other Burberrys have tempted me.
On dating and money: I think it has more to do with having some shared goals and interests. Is the woman banking the cash for security? Or mainly to afford luxuries? I know plenty of people with decent six-figure incomes that are doing worse than the mid-five digit ones. Is she going to be happy having both lux vacations that she can fund and less lux ones that he can? Do they share other interests? Are they going to be comfortable in the same places? I think shared goals and interests are much more indicative of the possibility of a sustained healthy relationship and that can translate into money issues though it doesn’t have to translate into money issues.
I haven’t smelled the Men’s London, need to rectify that!
Yeah, I know a lot of people making a ton of money who are poor just because they have all of their money spoken for in debt repayment. Ridiculous way to live.
I wouldn’t want a guy who made a lot of money and just completely had no idea how to handle it, either. As Miss Elizabeth Bennett would say, “then he wouldn’t be sensible, and I could never love a man who wasn’t sensible.”
The other thing I should mention, I think anyone getting back into dating should go for having some fun first with as wide variety as possible and if things take a turn for the serious, then worry about the possible future issues. Not every date has to be one step inot a lifetime’s journey. Sometimes it is just a spin on the Tilt-a-whirl and a funnel cake, which can be great. Not every date is Mitsouko or No. 5–it’s fun to smell a lot of samples, even if some don’t suit.
I absolutely agree with you. My single friends who have tried dating someone in a completely different financial bracket than they are have told me it’s very difficult to either have to “live poor” or pay for everything. As one friend said of a guy (in his early 40’s)she recently stopped seeing, “we don’t eat out, we can’t go on vacation, we can’t a lot of things I want to relax and enjoy because he can’t afford to pay for himself. He’s in a different life place than I am right now. He’s still deciding what he wants to be when he grows up.” I don’t think you need to be in the exact same place with money, but the same area helps.
Getting involved with someone later in life is much different than when you’re both in your twentys and neither of you has much of anything. I figure, once you’re off your first marriage, a prenup is a good idea. At that point you’ve already lived the reality that “happily ever after” doesn’t always happen, and I don’t personally think a prenup is a vote of no confidence so much as it is listening to the voice of experience.
Exactly. I think if you have certain tastes, and I do, the charm of having some one who can’t keep up with you unless you pay wears thin, as does going to places you hate simply because that’s what he can afforde. I know that sounds shallow, and I am a shallow girl who loves my Gucci and CL shoes and Hermes scarves, but I think when you’ve worked really hard to be at a certain point in you life, you need make no apologies for wanting to live the way you want.
First, on the Burberry: Someone gave me a bottle of Burberry Brit for X-mas a couple of years ago, and it’s, well, OK. Fine for office wear, not much development, just sorta there. I haven’t been tempted to try any of the others though, not when there are more interesting things out there.
Second, on the thorny relationship question: my aunt went through the situation described here, ended up re-marrying a man who made more money than her because she made a conscious decision to date within her social circle, which happened to include many very well-off men. It worked out for her, mostly because they had similar goals and backgrounds. It strikes me that, later in age, people are more likely to seek out the familiar and the secure than the diverse.
I’m on the other side though; my husband makes noticeably less money than I do, but he’s persuing his master degree whereas I have 2 super-specialized jobs. He does occasionally wrangle with the lack of bacon-bringing, but we try to minimize that by keeping the money separate. He has his accounts, I have mine, and it really helps keep the peace because then he’s not confronted by my extra moolah on a regular basis.
On
I’ve had a goodly number of horror stories e-mailed to me about a lesser income spouse being needled by the greater earning capacity of the woman. I know for every one of those, there are as many happy endings.
That’s a great thing!
Futhermore, what are the educational backgrounds?
If they are going to marry, she needs to check with an attorney first. I don’t know if prenups help or not. She may want to set up a trust that he can’t get to, or something like that, in the event the worst happens. Well, I guess the worst is that he kills you for your money, so hopefully not that. Yes, I am all love and kisses when it comes to marriage. o->
Debbie,
you are definitely my kinda gal! You know what they say (who the hell is ‘they’, btw?)
A man’s biggest fear is that a woman will laugh at him
A woman’s biggest fear is that a man will kill her.
(or something like that)..
Nice cheery thought, that – but one I suspect has more than a grain of truth to it, alas.
Why, thank you, Musette! xxoo
Hmmm….which one is more true than the other? If the former means “…to his face”, then #2 happens more often. However, if #1 means at any time, then *it* happens more often. 😕
I would love to try The Beat! It sounds great.
As for the other situation, here’s my two cents. Unless the guy has been a priest, working for the UN to save starving children, teaching children not because that’s the only job he could get but because he loves them and cares about future generations, etc. You get the picture. However. If he just a normal guy who has jumped from job to job, stayed in a stupid one when he could have done better, has a decent job but never bothered to save–let alone have a vice(s) that chews up money–NO!!!! It would be a source of conflict (thinking of someone who likes to rack up credit card bills in the tens of thousands), not to mention he could take her down with him. Money is one of the leading sources of contention between couples. If their values aren’t the same on this issue, I see divorce in the future.
You are so funny. This isn’t for my sister. It’s a hypothetical for me. She’s been happily married for like 20-something years. 🙂
That’s what I was thinking. Unless he had been devoting himself to some great mission/cause, when a guy hits their 40s, 50s and 60s, they really should have done some financial planning/career stuff. They don’t need to be rich or even well off or even have a 100k a year job, just need to have gotten to some okay place in their life where they feel comfortable and confident.
Once people marry, it should be joint money, not his or hers, and that’s where the conflict can be because that involves a lot of trust. when you get to a certain age, I think that becomes really tough to get to.
Oh, sorry. I misread your post. Whew. I don’t have to worry about your relative then. 🙂
It should be “ours”. However, some people manage money so badly that it has to be “his, hers and ours”.
There are some great people who, even by the time they reach your mentioned age group, still don’t have it together financially. I just think that anyone making that kind of money, presumably with decent assets, should take precautions. And not have much life insurance. :d
regarding the money issue – that’s such a personal equation that needs to be worked out between the two people in question, i don’t think we can actually say a wholesale “yay” or “nay.” no matter how much we like to think we have a couple’s relationship figured out (witness all the celebrity gossip), we can’t. only the two people in that relationship really know why it works or doesn’t.
i was married to a man who at the time made more money than i did, but he expected us to split expenses down the middle (which allowed him to put money aside). he was also a cheapskate about everything but his own purchases. everything i bought, with my own money, was criticized. i am much better off without him. if i found a guy who was making less than i, but had ambition and drive and a dream, that would be fine. i’d prefer to find someone with a lot more money, but who the man is and how he feels about himself and me is also very important. i have zero interest in finding a rich jerk.
See, that’s what I think too. If two people go into a partnership in life romantically, they have to share equally in the bounty. So I would expect to fully share my income with the person I was with. And if I couldn’t do that without hesitation, then… no way, it would be just stupid.
Agree on not wanting a rich jerk. I don’t want a poor jerk or middle income jerk either. Someone genuine, even if flawed, would work.
But isn’t this the crux of the gender-based issue we’re discussing…i.e., it’s okay for a gal to go for the gold (as in boullion), because unless she is pegged as a “golddigger,” it’s okay. But we assume nefarious motives on the part of any guy in this situation? And is that really so bad, if the gal accepts being income? What if the guy whips up a mean risotto, has abs/glutei maximi of steel, can take your dry cleaning, gives you all kinds of props, and in general, keeps you glowing?
Ooops, see I’m falling into line with what March already pointed out, but am still posting, because the difference in attitude/assumption based on gender alone is a prickly one, and I think worth exposing at least.
And in the reply to Lapidary, don’t we see the true issue: It’s a question of how each party is going to handle the situation, not whether it’s summarily predestined to fail.
Falling in step with convention does make some aspects of life easier…but then challenges us to work harder to examine our lives. Discrepancy of income; similarity of gender; difference of religious history if not downright belief; all sorts of things simply force the difficult conversations, rather than let them lie fallow.
Oops, to keep fragrance involved…do you see a particular scent worn by the woman who doesn’t even think of this as a problem? By one who can’t shake the feeling that it will eventually be a problem? /:)
Actually, my position is (I think I said it in my post), I think the same goes for a guy. if he’s looking for a woman in his age range, say he’s older 40s, 50s, 60s, I really don’t understand why he wouldn’t want a woman who was closer in financial stability to him. Not saying equal in either case because you will always have some disparity.
I also believe, though, that differences in religious belief fall in the same area. I would never marry someone who didn’t believe in God, just wouldn’t. That’s a cognitive dissonance in fundamental belief that would make no sense in building a life together, and I couldn’t imagine a guy who was an atheist that would want to be with me, it would just be annoying to him as I rattled through my rosary beads. 🙂
I could live with differences in religious flavors, don’t need a mate/date to agree down the line with me on most things, but I don’t lie to myself about who I am and what I can/can’t live with in a romantic relationship
Now, as for what scent for both. I think any CBs would appeal to the realist that knows it most likely will be a problem. I think something dream-like for the person who thinks love conquers all — maybe a nice musc, like Musc Nomade or Narciso Rodriguez Musc for Her?
Ah, and the world settled into a happy place, where whatever their conclusions, the perfumistas arrived there via thoughtful reflection, rather than simply making assumptions… :> Simply gonna go with “yup” about there always being disparity, and needing to remain true to oneself.
I ^:)^ to your highly realized self, hope that there wasn’t too much :-@ , look forward to more ‘fume talk 🙂 , and send @};- and ~o).
Your scent allocations are great — love that being a romantic does not mean all flowers. :d/
Agree with March–I was going to throw the teacher example out there but read through the comments and saw it had already come up a few times. We pay many classes of people really poorly in this country, and also refuse respect to categories of workers that got it in the past… I’m thinking here of blue collar or factory workers, who used to be esteemed for their contributions, but now it seems to be all about the executive track, lawyers and salespeople and business folks getting all the love. Also, don’t get me started with the way some categories of labor are devalued (Howdy, teachers and nurses!)
I think that the attitudes about money are what’s important, not the money itself. As a related issue, work ethic is important too.I’m comin’ up fast on 30, my live-in boyfriend is 36, and he’s been a bit of a dilettante his whole life. He’s done some amazing things, is an Olympic water polo player, takes incredible photos, but he’s never really dedicated or disciplined himself to work or a career. If I’m going to take the next step and marry the sucker, I want to know that he can work hard and take the lousy or dreary parts of committing to something–job, relationship–along with the fun good stuff about work.
I agree about that. Though I know here in Colorado, someone who has been teaching in the public school system or is a policeman or fireman easily makes in the 40k and up range, which to me is perfectly self-supporting. And I would never pass by someone like that.
however, I’m realistic about who I am. I love to travel and want to do a lot of it now that my kids are exiting the house. I love expensive shoes and nice hotels and, well, shopping! I pay for all of that myself, but I think a guy, looking at that, freaks out because he can’t provide that for me. I don’t want him to, don’t need him to, but it’s threatening on a lot of levels that most people are not honest about in love relationships.
I like Burberry Touch. My sisters both love Burberry, but yeah, their scents do smell very much alike.
As far as your question about dating – yes, I agree with you 100%. Putting myself in that situation, I can see how there is no way on earth I would date someone with less income than me. It’s a matter of principle. You’re absolutely right, values, priorities, degree of work and effort are just too different for the two people involved to be compatible, especially further into the relationship. In the beginning it may or may not make that much of a difference, but later on, it will so make a difference. That being said, I wouldn’t mind dating someone with a much bigger income than my own. 😉
Yes! I mean, I would date someone who made less than me, but I just wouldn’t want it to be a really, really significant less. They’d need to at least be self-supporting.
I never get how men can easily date women who made a hugely lower income than theirs once they get to a certain age?
Trophies.
I am so thank that my Dad married a woman his age when Mom died, even though with his income he could have had a younger woman. He wasn’t that impressed with them (at least the ones he met).
The only Burberry I have really liked was Touch for men and that was years ago.
I believe that alot of times there are certain mindsets involved in the income disparities that do lead to certain problems in building a relationship when the gap is extreme. It can work but it is an uphill battle and will require some great communication(which most of us men are awful at)
Exactly! I think men also want to not care, but culture, upbringing, testosterone does make things matter even if you don’t want it to.
Haven’t smelled the burberries, but have run head-first into the money issue. I’m 49, divorced 5 years. When I met my ex, I was just starting law school. Quit my job, went into debt to start a new career. The ex was incredibly supportive. Then I started doing really well, and his job was going nowhere. Never in a million years would I have guessed how threatened and resentful he would become. There were a lot of other problems, but that was a big one. since then, I’ve learned that some men – even the ones you wouldn’t expect – cant handle a woman who is more successful than they are. So I dont think the issue is similar goals or values as much as it is how secure the guy is and how happy he is in his job. A teacher who doesn’t make that much money but loves what he does can work, but a guy who is at all frustrated with his career path probably wont. And some guys of that age are just traditional- they want to be the bread winner, but they know its politically incorrect to say, so they keep it in. until they cant. . . .
by the way, Patty – where did you get the Annick Goutal Musc Nomade – its not in the US yet, right? love, love, love my sample.
okay, that really sucks. but I agree that the people you least expect it from do have problems, and it probably surprises them too. Money does connote power, and I think it’s more important for many men to have and somewhat equal balance of power for their masculinity (I’m probably going to get yelled at by someone here about that statement). But there are those gems out there who are completely secure about what they do and make, and it would not matter a whit to them, but my guess is that in the 40s, 50s and 60s, most of those guys are snapped up and getting held onto for dear life by some smart woman.
Musc Nomade is just in Paris right now. If you want me to snag you a bottle while I’m there, holler!
when are you going to Paris? I would love if you could get a bottle. I was there in February, stayed right across from an Annick Goutal boutique, but at that time, only the first 3 Orientalists (sp?) were out, and I dont love those enough to spend that kind of money. Send me an email and we’ll work it out! thanks
Don’t know nothin’ about Burberrys…
And March just saved me a whole lot of time on what promises to be a hideously busy day by perfectly stating my exact thoughts on the inequity of incomes question. Thanks, M!
I have a slightly different situation: my DH retired relatively young ( 53) and I still have my nose to the grindstone. People ask me if I resent that, but A: I’m happy for him because he worked so hard all those years, and B: he runs errands! (though I wish he’d take a clue from Bradamante’s beloved one and take care of house and garden— but then he’d be perfect and that might be hard to live with;)
but don’t you think it’s harder when someone is starting to date again later in life? I think when you’re young, it’s easy, who cares? Everything changes anyway. But when people are reaching the peak and end of their earning years, that balance in a relationship can become a huge problem because you haven’t spent years together building it.
I think it would totally rock to have a retired husband!
Well, hmmm, if I had to start dating again at my age (58), I, personally would hope it would be someone financially secure, but I’m sure I’d be thrilled just to find any attractive, smart, age-appropriate straight guy in New York.:-?
Well, yeah! sometimes I think I don’t want to be super-choosy. At this point, someone who wants to help me learn golf and won’t mind that I still kinda suck at it is a huge bonus. 🙂
I am the main breadwinner and it doesn’t bother me at all. But I am careful not to bring this up in arguments as male pride does get bruised quite easily on this issue.
I agree on the Burberrys: so hard to tell them apart !
I think this has become more common as women’s earning power has increased a lot over the last two decades, and I do think it is tricky. Men need to feel masculine, and money does connote power in a relationship.
The only Burberry I like is … that one that smells better than the other ones but I don’t know what it is ‘cuz all the bottles look the same. :d Maybe it’s Gold, can’t remember.
On the money thing: respectfully disagree, and agree with the arguments above supporting that position. Both parties need to have The Talk at some point, about money, if things look like they are getting more serious. But if he’s a potter, a lovely guy, happy as a clam, making $20k a year doing something that makes him happy, and she’s making $200K doing something corporate, maybe he provides the perfect balance in her life. I would say most of the couples I know in this area, there is a profound imbalance between the amount of $ each person makes, and it cuts both ways, gender-wise. The issue in the situation you describe (as in any similar situation) would be: can he deal with the fact she makes more? Can they have an adult conversation about how much gets spent by whom on vacation, housing, etc.? On a basic level, is he some lazy mooch looking for a Sugar Momma, or is he doing valuable work that just doesn’t pay squat? In our country, where craftsmen and artists and teachers often make very little, I don’t think you can immediately make judgments about someone based on their income… okay, stepping down from soapbox now.
I don’t disagree with you at all. I do think as people are older and starting to date, though, that having that talk is more difficult because you each have kids and family, and it’s more complex. When people are younger, having that kind of conversation is easier because life is flowing forward and things change. Once you get to your 40s and 50s, even a teacher should be making 40k a year, which is certainly not poverty.
My thinking, though, is that older people just dismiss it too easily as not a big deal, either way, and then I think it does become a big deal and that people lie about their feelings to make a relationship work. But real feelings always surface somewhere.
OK, very embarrassing, but have to say I’m not sure I’ve ever sniffed any of the Burberry scents. Sounds like I need to give Elixir a try, though. Adding that to my list of things to try next time I’m at Sephora.
Money. Hmmm. OK, in an ideal universe it shouldn’t matter at all, but, much to my surprise I discovered after I married that my darling DH who wouldn’t seem to care about money (quit being a lawyer to return to grad school and become a professor), actually would be very distressed if I earned more than he did. He knows this isn’t the politically correct attitude, but…it is what it is. I, personally, have always been more attracted to men who don’t make a lot of money. My priority is that they have a strongly creative side and are comfortable in their own skin. I think if a man is doing something which makes him feel he has a strong sense of purpose and that he loves, that will trump how much he earns from it and he’d be a great person to date. If a man isn’t comfortable w/ what he’s done in life and who he is – that’s a serious problem, regardless of income level.
Okay, I completely agree with you there. If a guy loves what he does, no matter his income, and has made that mental adjustment already and is secure in that, then he would be a great catch for any woman.
I don’t know the Brits, but agree that the bottles are adorable, at least. Must spray on a trip to the mall.
I think dating/love is plenty complicated enough at 40, 50, and 60-ish, without focusing too hard on money. For me, marrying a guy that was “comfortable” was important in my breeding years, because I wanted the ease of devoting time to children without working much (ended up being one “child”, but still glad for our older fashion arrangement at that time). I later divorced, and have enjoyed not relying on anyone for support.
I have dated plenty over these many single years. For the most part, I have not made my selections based on age, religion, race, and/or income. What has counted is whether the fellow is bright, somewhat sane, intellectually inclined, politically relatively in synch with me, and pretty darn quirky. And, of course, physically pleasing to me.
A fellow that make less than me is just fine, so long as he doesn’t expect me to support him, and as long as he is OK with the difference incomes. My SO of the past years makes less net income after multiple expenses…so we go to afternoon movies, hike a lot, and cook at home. Making love is very low cost, btw ; ).If he is broke, and I want to travel,I go alone or with friends. So far, I haven’t been inclined to live with him, or any man, so I am of course not having to deal with day-to-day expenses.
Would I like a richer man? In theory it would be nice, but other matches are way more important to me at his stage of life.
I actually agree with you on this. I don’t have a problem dating a guy that makes less than me, but if that income mismatch is too broad, I think it can cause more problems. I wouldn’t not date someone because of income.
With casual relationships it wouldn’t matter that much. Serious relationships tend to self select based on a number of different factors, money being one of them. I think she should date whomever. There are millions of things that can disqualify someone from being a good mate. By filtering by income you automatically eliminate a lot of people that might be much more perfect for her than some high powered, high income schmuck. I’m not saying she should date a bum who would need financial assistance from her, but as long as he can provide for himself decently, why not?
Also, I read part of the question as “above decant income.” The perfume is going to my brain.
You put in a comprehensive way what I needed way to much words for. Hear hear!
My poor sister. This isnt’ for her, she’s happily married, we’re having this argument for me. 🙂
I do agree with you. I wouldn’t require a guy to have a ton of money, but I would like him to be self-supporting. Not that he be rich or make scads of cash, and I wouldn’t rule anyone out just on the basis of income. If they were smart and funny and interesting, I’d totally be down for seeing them, but I think going into something longer term, it can become dicy sorting those issues out.
Ah, Patty. Not for sis. So for you, hypothetically, I give the age-old recommendation: go out, have fun, play. Find cute, interesting companionship. Maybe some hot stuff. Wild young men with good manners are very uplifting. Money doesn’t count at all in this stage, nor does “appropriate” in a sense. Just let a fellow(s)make you feel as good as you deserve to 🙂
You’re definitely right. In the dating/having fun stage, which I expect to be in for years, if not forever, money doesn’t matter, but all things being equal, I’d just as soon my dates can treat me the way I’d like to be treated most of the time. I like dive bars and pool halls and bowling alleys as well as the best restaurants, but I like having the choice.
anyway, it’s a brave new adventure. I’ll be asking for lots of advice as I move into it. 😮
=)) “Above decant income”…that’s perfect!!
OMG! You are SO right. For this crowd, that IS perfect!
Okay – here’s to having an ‘Above Decant Income’ for us all!
xoxo<:-p
this could be a new Perfumista abbreviation, ADI. 🙂
O please. Patty, I love you all so much, how can you say such a horrible thing? I am in my 40-ies and make more money than my beloved one, and we are really, really happy together. I just like making money more than he does! And he loves doing other stuff I am not that good at (like taking care of our lovely house and garden and… taking care of ME!)
In love you will have to look in the mirror. You will meet yourself and you will know there are all kinds of challenges and questions you shall deal with. Money might be a problem and it might not. But to start with the assumption: HE must make at least AS MUCH and preferably MORE money than SHE, is putting yourself voluntarily back between restrictions we’ve been struggling to get free from. You hand over your autonomy to fear of money.
And I ask you: what are you gonna do if this rich chap meets a woman he finds betterlooking and betterbehaving then you are? Because that’s the deal we’re talking about here: money for beauty. Albeit in a lite version, but that certainly doesn’t steer it away from this fact. (afterall – obesitas really took flight with the arrival of the litefood industry)
So. I agree: money can be a problem. Just as all other kinds of problems that might be part of your relationship. And conquering these problems is what love is about. The willingness to take a shared responsability for this journey you’re making together can bring you riches you didn’t even dare to dream about!
See, I’m not saying that money is even important, and I think absolutely disparate income levels can work great between people. I just think a lot of that works itself out better when people are younger when they meet.
once you get to the 40s, 50s, 60s, people are more set in their ways and what they will and won’t accept for their life. I live a certain way, I expect to continue living that way, and I think there is a very real possibility that a lot of men would feel emasculated if they couldn’t keep up financially. I wouldn’t mind paying for some guy some of the time, but I think resentment can set in if you do it too much on both sides and upsets the balance of power in a relationship between two older adults.
I definitely do NOT want a guy for his money, I have my own, thanks, but I also don’t want a guy that wants me for my money.
And that is seems to be part of the issues. If the woman makes more money than the man, will she tell herself he is in it for the money? Will she constantly question why he is with her and if it is because of the money (read: security, vacations, nice things, all that stuff that money can bring)? Would she have a hard time believing that a great guy is with her just for her.
I guess it does come down to lifestyle choices, like Musette mentioned. If the guy is happy with his life and his income (and whatever limits to his lifestyle that income might create)and the woman is happy with the guy and can make peace with his lifestyle, then great. The problems arise when the woman is trying to change him or his lifestyle, or if he is trying to use her to change is lifestyle.
My mom is recently divorced and we joked that she should become a Cougar. She said she worked to hard for her money to spend it on a 25 year old she hadn’t given birth to–no matter how cute or sexy he might be
Money is always an issue, in any relationship. 🙂
I agree with your mom! As entertaining as someone younger sounds, I also don’t want to pay for someone I didn’t give birth to (or adopt before the age of 10). And dating any guy that’s withing ten years of my oldest son’s age just makes me break out in hives and would make them break out in laughter as they started calling me a Cougar.
I couldn’t take the pain. 🙂
i do kind of like the beat. ive only tried the EDP on my skin. ive tried elixir and EDP on strips next to each other but didn’t have the patience to really investigate the difference. ill say this however: a couple of days later, picking the strips up of the floor of my car, the elixir had significantly more lasting power than the EDP. and also, it reminds me forcibly of paul smith floral, which i like and have, so feel that my carded sample of the beat (2ml) is more than enough to last me. but i would like to try the elixir on my skin.
when you say burberry gold, do you mean the LE brit gold? i had that, but it was very powdery and dry on me and i had to wait hours before the sandalwood would creep in. it had pretty much no relation to the original (which i can’t wear because my mom does and its just weird smelling her when she’s not around…). it was nice, but ultimately i swapped it away.
i really can’t pass judgment on the dating thing. i am 21 and make no money. i have no perspective on the matter.
on 2nd thought, that bottle is really really cute. if i ran across it at the right price later down the road, id probably buy it just to have the bottle
yeah, I meant the Brit Gold. My mind… it just retains nothing!
The Beat? When I had it sprayed on me trying to get to the dress section of Bloomingdale’s, I found it bland and midly annoying. Not bad, but nothing I’d want.
I wish the men and money thing was so easy. I’m nowhere near the 40s or 50s or 60s, but it can be hard to find single men who are in the same income group, unless they’re insame workaholics or just plain insane. As long as your sister’s guy can support himself and isn’t a drain on her, and he spends his time encouraging her instead of bringing her down, maybe he’s not so bad.
Oh, this isn’t for my sister! She’s happily married. It’s just a discussion we were having where she is on one side and I’m on the other.
The Burberries are something I claim that don’t interest me and that I’d never buy, but there’ve been a number of occasions when I’ve complimented people on their scent and it’s turned about to be Burberry this, that, or the other. Is that cool flask pictured above The Beat Elixir?
Money? I’d love to say it doesn’t matter. In fact, it doesn’t matter. That being said, there COULD be some problems down the line, particularly with men of a certain age group (pure observation, very generalized) who because of attitudes prevalent during their coming of age, harboring resentment towards a woman more successful financially. Certainly people will talk. Sugar Mama, and all that rot. That being said, love conquers all, right? My Sugar Daddy turned out to be almost as broke as I am (it’s amazing how one can initially be fooled by a pair of nice shoes) but we’ve been together almost fifteen years and I still accuse him of slumming. Town Mouse meets Country Mouse and he’s been stuck with me beneath his class ever since. Sucker.
Lucky mice to have each other :d
yeah, that flask is the Elixir. it’s got some nice heft to it too. Great packaging job. Agree on people smelling good and it’s often Burberry. I’ve run into that a lot. So I don’t really like them for me in theory, but they are great fragrances to have out in the world on other people.
See, that’s what I’m saying. I agree it shouldn’t matter, and I think it matters less when people are young. But once you get to a certain age and both parties have childre and grandchildren, the more of a disparity in income that exists, the more problems you have to solve and work through. Not that it can’t be done, but I don’t think people should just gloss over it as if it doesn’t have some impact.
Lucky Sucker, you mean!;)
Some of us creative types used to make a fair amount of money, and put that aside to pursue a dream. I wouldn’t hold that against someone.
I do agree with that. i know there are a lot of interesting, intelligent people who have changed careers to do something more interesting, but that pays a lot less.
I think if the attraction starts with money, it will end with money. Get a pre-nup. Me? I divorced the cheating doctor with whom I could have been wealthy, married someone that I had to support off and on for many years. He is supportive, loving, generous with his time and talents (which are considerable), and I wouldn’t trade him for a stack of money up to my chin. Depends what you want in life, I guess. If your heartline runs through the checkbook, marry someone with money, but read Rocking Horse Winner by D.H. Lawrence first.
I absoloutely agree that money shouldn’t be a factor in attraction, but, unfortunately, what a person has and is is often determined by their earning power and the way they live.
I think there are a lot of factors that could override a big disparity in income, like you set out, but I still think people have to be realistic about emotions when it comes to money.
Quinn –
What I was talking about in my reply (which may have set this post off in a different direction, unfortunately) is not whether the man MAKES more money than the woman but whether or not both parties are interested in the same things (goes for any couple, regardless of sex)…if I’m a Manolo kinda girl, loving Graff diamonds, etc and I marry a man who not only isn’t into that sort of lifestyle but resents MY wanting that type of lifestyle (even if I have the chops to pay for it myself) then it’s a problem. As pattie said in her post, a lot depends upon how secure each person is in their own skin. If either party’s rocky, it will make for a very uncomfortable situation.
My first husband made far less money than me but we had similar aspirations so it was easy to pool our resources to enjoy our like-minded lives. We won’t get into my current situation but suffice to say it’s quite a bit different.
Like you, I would have no problem being with someone who made less money IF that person was happy with himself, supportive of me and wanted the best for both of us. Conversely I wouldn’t want to be with a rich person if they made me unhappy!
Very well said, Musette. It’s not the cash balance, it’s the compatability balance.
Jesus at this point I’d just like breathing….
This is such a mystery to me, you shouldn’t be single anymore.
I think it’s easier, still, when the man makes more money, even if the woman isn’t that interested in it (don’t know any of them but I’m sure they are out there:-). All sorts of societal/gender/whatever issues come up when the guy isn’t about money and the gal is.
I’m all for making money and it’s easier still when my partner is pretty much on the same page. Life is stressful enough without having to cross a lifestyle chasm the size of money!
xo
See, that’s what I think! I don’t want a man for his money at all, but I don’t want a man who is more interested in my money than me, and I think it can be hard to know exactly which it is if the gap is too wide, it just adds a layer or complexity to figuring out the genuineness of feeling.
Yep, I agree.
See, I’m easy, yuck, yuck…But honey, if I was single and a fine man with tons more money than me wanted to treat me, I can tell you that I would never, ever, be resentful! :d
Hugs!
yeah, I know. I think it’s much more acceptable for an older, wealthy man to marry a woman who may not have anywhere near the same income range. I guess I’m old fashioned in thinking that a guy should have not a lot less money than the woman. I mean, there can be disparity, but if she does 200k a year and he does 25k a year, that just doesn’t seem like it could work for a long term easily, thought I know it can and has.