As we are hitting mid-winter, the Holidays are over, and winter fatigue is setting in, instead of sitting around like Medusa, Stheno and Euryale – fighting over our one Gorgon tooth, eye and nose – we decided to be more, um, constructive. Here’s the Posse’s list of Top Ten Winter Scents, and we actually agreed on all ten — yeah, yeah, hoofbeats, horsemen, pestilence, basilisks, cockatrices, blah, blah, we are able to agree from time to time when we are not lobbing scented hand grenades. Be sure to visit our perfume blogthren to see their lists as well! :: Bois de Jasmin :: Now Smell This :: Perfume Smellin’ Things :: Scentzilla
- L’Artisan Tea for Two
- Guerlain Spiriteuese Double Vanille
- Christian Dior Jules
- Christian Dior Pour Homme (someone should have really told me how freaking gorgeous this is a long time ago)
- Fendi Theorema
- Guerlain Bois d’Armenie
- Le Labo Patchouli 24
- CB Winter 1972
- Parfums de Nicolai New York
- Annick Goutal Ambre Fetiche
What are your top ten scents for Winter?
1. Rose 31 (Le Labo)
2. Sienne L’Hiver (Eau d’Italie)
3. Timbuktu (L’Artisan Parfumeur)
4. Dzongkha (L’Artisan Parfumeur)
5. Safran Troublant (L’Artisan Parfumeur)
6. Tom of Finland (Etat Libre d’Orange)
7. S-ex (S-Perfume)
8. Jaïpur Homme Fraîcheur (Boucheron)
9. Cuir (Lancôme)
10. L’Air du Desert Marocain (Tauer)
Bonus (my very special treat to myself for when I really need it):
Cuir Santalion (Parfumerie Generale)
Hi, Kay: The site called my attention to your post because I subscribed to this post when I wrote in it. This post is nearly a year old, which is why you’re not getting responses. If you are very fond of Estee Lauder scents, get the book “Perfume: The Guide,” by Luca Turin & Tania Sanchez for additional suggestions. (It came out in early 2008.) Turin is a huge fan of Lauder, as well as being one of the best-known perfume writers around, so it’s likely you will find things that he likes that are to your taste as well. He also has some helpful info at the beginning about the chemistry of perfume. As to this board, maybe look at some more recent posts to get yourself in the swing of things?
I can’t think of a top 10 list myself. I’ve worn Obsession for about 14 years. I always loved it. Then a year or two ago, my sister bought me a bottle of Sensi. I really like that one too, but it seems they’ve stopped making it. So I just ordered a set of perfumes from Estee Lauder. In the mix were Beautiful, Beyond Paradise, Pleasures, Youth-Dew, White Linen, Sensuous, and Amber Ylang Ylang. I know I like Beautiful, but I’ve never smelled the rest.
I would love to hear any opinions on any of the perfumes that I’ve mentioned, or any suggestion on other perfumes that someone would think that I might enjoy, going by the fragrances that I wrote that I liked.
Thank you in advance for responding.
Kay
I will have to say, my favorites for the cozy upcoming winter are
(not specific names) something cypress. Maybe a little vanilla and woody. Those really bring up the holiday!:)
Debbie,
Bad news–I wore Angel today and my neck broke out–I’m not sure what actually is causing the allergy but I’m going to have to discontinue use. Thanks so much for the suggestions. Can you purchase them in the US??
Thanks Again!!
Cindy
Yes They Should All Be Available At Your Local Department Store (belks, Macy’s, JcPenny, etc).
Christian Dior Pour Homme, is a classic
Thanks for your comments Patty–I went to the local department store (Macy’s) and they do not have Chanel 22 so I wasn’t able to sample it. I may go back tomorrow and try the Dior Homme. After reading my list do you have any recommendations for me?
Thanks so much!!
Um, I know you didn’t ask me, but if you like Angel, try Ginestet’s Botrytis and Frapin’s “1270”. BTW, I like Angel too. It’s a gourmand fragrance. If you look at The Perfumed Court’s list of sample sets, they have some for gourmands….also for different notes in the gourmand style. For example, if you discover that you like the scent of chocolate or honey, you can try perfumes that have those in them.
I’d have to look up your other fragrances to see what type they are; I bet Patty knows just by looking.
Enjoy the journey! It’s a wonderful one!
Hello–
This is my first time visiting your site and I will definitely be sampling several scents after reading these incredible lists…
My Top 10 winter scents and I am relatively new to the fragrance world–I suffered allergies for years and was unable to wear many fragrances–are..
1. Burberry Brit
2. Coco Mademoiselle
3. J’adore (Love this any time of year)
4. Nina by Nina Ricci
5. Chance (Au Fraiche) Spelling???
6. Thierry Mugler’s Angel
7. Inis
8. Dior Addict 2
9. Bright Crystal (Versace)–Any time of year–Beautiful scent
10.Euphoria Blosson (Calvin Klein)
I wanted to ask two questions if I may
1. What does Coco 22 smell like?? I don’t think I’ve ever seen this scent.
2. Is Dior Homme OK for women to wear
Sorry to appear dense–I am trying to familiarize myself with these recommendations. Thanks for your help!!!
Happy to answer the question. Coco and 22 are actually two different chanel scents. Coco is a rich oriental, very ambery and quite lovely, but has some tremendous sillage. 22 is just beautiful. A lovely floral incense.
I think Dior Homme can definitely be worn by women. I wear a lot of men’s scents. Test it first to see if you like it, but I think it’s just gorgeous.
you’re not dense at all, just learning!!! HOpe you’ll always feel free to ask questions here. Everyone started somewhere.
It is incredibly mild and damp over here in Nottingham – all my bulbs are peeping through and, unless disaster strikes, I’m going to have a early bumper crop of narcissus, hyacinth and crocus. I even have miniature irises poking through the bare earth. Brave pansies and primulus (narcissi, croci, primuli?) are well advanced, too.
This could explain why I’m currently addicted to all things CB and earthy and have embarked on a violet and iris testing programme.
Oh, Jayne, that sounds lovely. So I guess you have tried CB Black March? It probably smells just like your garden right now — lovely. (Black March is as close as I’m getting for a while, since our highs lately have been 20-30 below C.) –Ellen
Hi Ellen,
Lovely to talk to you again – I’ve been a mixture of partly lurking and partly living life offline, too, so I really identified with what you said earlier.
Yes, Black March and Wild Pansy are weird ones to make a best of winter list, but we don’t really seem to have had what I would call a proper winter for such a looong time. I’ve seen cherry blossom out already and in January that’s plain mental.
I can’t imagine 20-30 below – isn’t that the temperature at which eye-lashes snap off? Have you got the dogs trained to sled?
xxx J.
We’ve had -20C here this past weekend, and will have similar temps this week. Your eyelashes won’t break off, but you’d better make sure you have warm clothing – I’ve been wearing long underwear, two pairs of gloves, a face mask/hat, and down coat. If you dress properly, it’s not too bad.
-30C is another matter… I’ve only experienced that a handful of times in my life. At that temperature my sinuses feel like blocks of ice, the little hairs in my nose freeze when I breathe out, and the snow “squeaks” in a peculiar way when I walk on it. The coldest I’ve experienced (the coldest ever here in northern Illinois USA) was -30C with a 40mph wind which brought the wind chill to something like -60C … a real frozen nightmare. At the time, I was visiting from the warm Southland so I didn’t even have a proper winter coat.
CB Black March is definitely on my try list … I could use a foretaste of spring about now. 🙂
Ah yes, Vasily, the dreaded nosehair freeze! Actually, my malamute mix doesn’t really come to life until about -10C. They were bred for sled pulling, and her ears are COMPLETELY fur-lined! While my thin-skinned pitbull is tiptoeing by the backdoor, ready to burst in as soon as he can, the “malamutant” is dancing, howling, and sometimes lying on the ice!
The only thing to like about it, Jayne, is to tell yourself how tough you are to have survived it. Oh, and it kills off various things that plague more temperate places, like fleas. You’re just as well off without it! :d Ellen
Malamutant :d:d:d
I love so many listed.
You’d adore Kretek, Patty. Just like those Indonesian clove cigarettes we smoked in college, tryin’ to be cool.
Cuir Ambre
Burnt Amber[ Amber anything, like Louise !]
L’Heure Bleue/ Bois de Copaiba
Tabac Blond
Sortilege
Madini Henna
Madini Mokhalate Malaki
AL Palisander, Midnight Violet, Madame X
Farnesiana
AG Myrrhe Ardente
Bellodgia
Nuit de Noel
Shalimar
Mitsouko
Guet-Apens
Jasmin de Nuit
I give up.
Let’s get a beer….
1) L’Artisan’s Tea For Two (comforting and smoky)
2) Parfumerie Generale’s Bois de Copaiba (love the resins)
3) Montale’s Black Aoud (How “aoud” art thou?)
4) Tauer’s L’Air du Desert Marocain (gotta love the birch tar)
5) Domenico Caraceni’s Domenico Caraceni (a new kid on the block for me)
6) Serge Lutens’ Chergui (definitely screams “here are my top, mid, base -notes!)
7) Serge Lutens’ Fumerie Turque (who needs a fireplace to smell smoke in the winter)
8) TDC’s Rose Poivree (when a rose is not just a rose)
9) Czech & Speake’s No. 88 (no need to trudge through the snow to the barbershop)
10) Creed’s Angélique Encens (incense and garden angelica, promises for a great spring)
Let’s see … my current top 10 are:
Ava Luxe Feu de Bois
Ava Luxe Cafe Noir
Ava Luxe Kretek
Ayala Moriel Rebelious
Comme des Garcons Series 2: Red Sequoia
Comme des Garcons Incense: Avignon
Knize Ten
Serge Lutens Fumerie Turque (wearing it now!)
Creed Orange Spice
Creed Bois du Portugal
I can’t believe the four of you all agreed on a list of ten, I don’t think I can decide on ten myself! I’m gonna try anyway.
I’ve been wearing the hell out of some Sarrasins, actually that’s the only thing I’ve worn since I bought it, I think I’m slightly addicted. It’s a nice change after wearing A La Nuit for so long(ALN is still on my list.) Hmm, Jicky(which is great for any season), Mitsouko, Chanel Cuir de Russie, Coco, Mure et Musc, Tabac Blond, and I tried to limit the Serge but I have to add Rose de Nuit and Muscs Koublai Khan.
Such great lists! I’m busy scribbling down things to try. I’ve had, in fairly heavy rotation: Black Cashmere, Oud Roses Petals, Tea for Two, Coco (edp and parfum), Ormonde Jayne Ta’if (need a decant, my sample is running low!), Guerlain SDV (ditto) and many, many samples — after letting them pile up (ordered and generously gifted) I’ve been on a little testing binge. My favorite so far (also gorgeous in the cold)is Caron Poivre — wow! I never knew I liked carnation, but now I’m looking for that gorgeous clove in everything!
A surprise — haven’t been wearing my ambers. But perhaps that will change by next week…
I love Black Cashmere! It’s one I use in the winter too, a favorite.
Is “Christian Dior Pour Homme” referring to the regular Dior Homme? Or have I been asleep and missed something??? I hope not!
Anyway, my fav’s in the winter involve iris lately…Bois Farine’s been keeping me happy throughout the cold days lately! :((
Oh, dear hearts, my latest winter love: Parfumerie Generale Un Crime Exotique. At first, I just got hot cereal but somehow it unfolded on subsequent wearing & now I’m getting a spicy/sweet loveliness like the dregs of a mug of spice tea or Italian panforte (those spicy Xmas fruitcakes). I just walked through a seriously below-zero-windchill and the first thing I did when I settled in was put on some UCE! (And fix a mug of tea.)
A light spicy loveliness is in the warm ginger of Curated by Colette Bless. (The description says it is supposed to be about Nutella & comfort blankets.) Alas, this was a limited edition & disappearing quickly. (Gulp! 5 ml now for $40!)
I adore the gingery Miller et Bertaux 2 (Spiritus/Land) as well, but it isn’t “warm” enough for this. Any layering suggestions? –Ellen
I love the JM Pom Noire! Layer it with Nectarine Blossom & Honey and it’s sooooo yummy!
Well, I tried to limit it to 10 but I live in the desert and we have a mild winter so I should have more on my list right? lol 🙂
mandrake apothecary terrae
tauer le maroc pour elle
annick goutal sables
bond #9 new haarlem
CdG jaisalmer
Ava Luxe firewood
guerlain winter delice
Lutens fumerie turque, santal de mysore, chypre rouge
HdP 1740 marquis de sade
PdE cuir ottoman, fougere bengale
DSH twelfth night
le labo patchouli 24
Ormonde orris noir
PG bois blond
caron tabac blond, poivre
PdN vie de chateau eau fraiche
great list, patty!
i always have a very hard time making such a list – when i want to think about which perfumes i like most, my head´s almost immediately empty :”>
alright, i´ll try at least!
in no particular order:
– guerlain angelique noire
– guerlain l´heure bleue
– caron tabac blond extrait (this is whole year around wonderful)
– caron parfum sacre extrait (my new love 😡 )
– chanel coromandel
– serge lutens rose de nuit
Рfr̩d̩ric malle noir epices (strictly for really cold weather)
– roja dove enslaved
– andy tauer l´air au désert marocain
– annick goutal encens flamboyant
within the last few weeks, i´m wearing many samples as well & (unfortunately…) a lot of them are FBW & extremely well suited for winter wear, like divine l´inspiratrice, le labo patch & rose, amouage jubilation for men,…my wishlist is really looong @-)
but i just don´t get the “hype” about theorema – it´s only seet, candied oranges on me without much development. i would love some wood, amber, spice, whatever!
Tauer L’air du Desert … huh … it’s on my top 10 list, but for warm weather. One of the frags I own in whole bottle form (100ml). 90% of the time when I wear it, it’s in the warm weather … don’t know why, maybe it’s the “Desert” in the name. 🙂 Or maybe it’s because I find it oddly refreshing in the warm weather, probably the only spice frag I can think of that actually has a coldness at its heart … that stony fragrance in the breeze on a cold desert night. It’s bitter cold this weekend in Illinois, maybe I’ll spritz some L’air on Sunday…
Oh no…this is so hard. Well, in this minute, these would be my top ten winter frags. They’re subject to change in the next minute, so let me hurry. They’re in no particular order.
Borneo 1834 -Serge
Ambre Narguille – Hermessences
Vetiver Tonka “”
Lonestar Memories – Tauer
Loukoum by Mecheri with Black Tourmaline by Durbano sprayed over it (smoky candy, yum yum)
Un Bois Vanille – Serge
Le Labo Patch 24
Inux Splash Forte (so sad I can’t get a FB)
Tea for Two – L’artisan
Juozas Statkevicius
and any of my incenses…I know that makes more than 10 – but I love those year round.
Fun post, Patty, thank you.
wait! Robin NST reminded me of Dzing! by L’artisan, and that is one of my all-time favorites!
Good job coming up with just 10 posse.
this is a list of things I love to wear in winter, but would not wear in summer:
– the much maligned by Patty Ambre Narguile
– the much maligned by Marina Obsession
– Tea 4 2
– Jil Sander No 4
– Dior Dune (tried to wear it once in summer, and I was totally repulsed – weird reaction for one of my favorites)
– Zagorsk
– Angel Men
– several Carons
I like Theorama, all the mentions of it on the blogs lately are making me think I need a bottle.
Mmm, your list is so warm and yummy and reminds me that I want to try Bois d’Armenie. I totally agree on Tea for Two and Guerlain Spiriteuse Double Vanille (sooo hoping that my decant of Vanille lasts me through winter). My list also includes New Haarlem, Tabac Blonde, Parfum Sacre, Chene, Black Cashmere, Black Aoud, Coromandel and Chanel No. 22.
Armenie is just stunning, love, love, love it. Love your list!!!
Same here; too new to have ten. I’ve been wearing: Chanel No. 22, Dzing, Femme, FM Iris Poudre, Jubilation 25, Mitsouko (thanks to PP! And now I’m off to get the parfum…) Haven’t tried most on your list, except Tea for Two, which is nice but makes me smell like a chai. I’m really curious about the CDs now!
22 is my perennial good at any time to wear, it is amazing.
Diors have grown on me. I know a couple of years ago, I used to turn up my nose at them. I think broadening your idea of what perfume should smell like is very helpfpul there. 🙂
Wow, I wish I had 10!! I’m just starting out in the world of sniffing… which is why this website is so helpful (and quite addictive).
My current faves are DSH Gypsy and Twelfth Night, Thierry Mugler Alien, Jo Malone Blue Agave and Cacao and Pomegranite Noir, Annick Goutal Eau de Charlotte, Givenchy Amarige
and on him: JM Black Vetyver Cafe, SMN Nostalgia (TY Posse Club!) 😡
Good choices! It’s tough when you’re first starting out, but just remember to take your time and enjoy the journey!
yeah, it is tough =) I find myself with millions of samples… all too many make the ‘buy me’ list, but I’m slowly starting to buy bottle of things. When I first smelled JM Blue Agave/Cacao I had to stop myself from spraying it directly up my nose I loved it SO much! That was my first (and still fave 3 months later) full bottle purchase.
Just ordered the Eau de Charlotte today 😉 I seem to have a thing for chocolate and liquor :d
Prefer Chanel’s Coromandel to Patch 24 (and No 5 will always be on my lists!).
Haven’t tried the new Goutal’s yet but love Songes – the white flower notes remind me of the tropics instead of the snow!
Yes to your Guerlains and also Angelique Noir (I can’t stop sniffing it!) and Mitsouko, EDP or parfum. Trying to love Shalimar parfum but have to survive the first hour which smells like gas on me, not comforting in the winter. After that it is lovely but I sure don’t get any powder!
Have discovered Ahava Lightening Hand Cream – absorbs fast, SPF 12, has virtually NO fragrance. I can keep my hands in good shape in the winter and still pile on the perfume on my wrists – yipee!!
Angelique Noir does grow on you. i find I love it and Cuir Beluga a lot more now than I did when they first appeared on the scene.
Shalimar parfum… just no, can’t do it, in the parfum, edt or edp or even the shower gel, just not happening.
I’m still using my ridiculously expensive Amore Pacific Iintenssive Hande Renewal Creme. If it wasn’t the only thing that keeps my hands from being red, chapped messes, I wouldn’t pay that ridiculous amount of money for it.
You all 4 managed to agree on a list??? Wow, that is impressive!!
Nobody told me about CD Pour Homme either.
Yeah! There was some behind-the-scenes squabbling. 🙂
Dior Pour Homme is perfection. I wonder why it doesn’t get more love? It surely deserves it, one of the best things Dior has done in a while.
Let’s see:
Guerlain Mitsouko
Caron Nuit de Noel
Fendi Theorema
SL Douce Amere
Dior Homme (for any time of the year, really)
Does it count to put L’Heure Bleue as it’s a fave all year round, every year, forever and ever?
Yipee – another SL Douce Amere lover! I think it is one of the more amazing Lutens perfumes and doesn’t seem to get much love.
Oh, I am right there with you! Douce Amere is just purrrrrr…….
Well, that’s a whole other list! Things that are perfect all year round.
Dior Homme, yum! i’m so obsessed with that perfume right now, but it will pass!
Ack, I had a complete brain freeze. Was trying to think of some vintage Dior scent called Pour Homme, but of course you mean the iris/cocoa thingie. Never mind :d
I don’t have 10 favorites….yet. However, I purchased a full bottle of Ginestet’s Botrytis. That is such a comforting scent to me that it can help me sleep even in the presence of pain. Obviously, that one is likely to turn into more than a winter favorite!
I can’t get Amber Fetiche out of my mind. I think I am going to have to get a larger decant of that once I go through a large order I recently placed. That’s assuming nothing in it replaces it as my skank favorite. (Yes, AF was a little skanky to me–in the best kind of way).
I also discovered Montale’s White Aoud. And I thought I hated rose! Apparently not if it’s in Montale’s house. Sweet Oriental Dream was also a wonderful rose discovery. That one is soft enough, however, that it really isn’t a winter scent. I see wearing that in summer.
Several years ago, I tried Tea for Two. It was my favorite of the L’Artisans I tried. It just wasn’t a long-term keeper for me. It’s been too long for me to say why. I haven’t tried any other on the Posse’s list. I’ll have to look up the rest.
Debbie
White Oud is beautiful, I do agree. I ran out in summer, and now that it’s winter, I miss it!!!
I have on White Oud today, and oddly enough, it smells richer, spicier, and rosier than it did in the fall. Perfect for a snowy day!
Posted mine on PST, so I won’t repeat. But I love most of your list–and I’m So glad to see our shared love Patchouli 24 on it (in many ways, I find this the ultimate winter comfort scent)!
But I’ll wear patch 24 any time of year!!!!
Wonderful list! Last night I put down my list of scents I love when I *have* to suffer through winter temps, but just listened to a forecast for snow and am in an abysmal mood over it (I have zero tolerance for any sort of cold weather and can’t stand being forced to remain inside for even a day), so will list a few of my magical thinking winter favorites. When I wear these I can fool myself into believing summer and wonderful 90 degree temps are *right* around the corner.
PdN Juste un Reve
Diorama
Carnal Flower
CdG Kyoto
CB Memory of Kindness
SL Mandarine Mandarin
TDC Divine Bergamote
Chanel No. 31
Armani Prive Jade
I like winter more than you, but that list makes perfect sense. I finally found some vintage diorama edt. The Dove is pretty close, but the vintage is better. 🙂
No Chanels you guys? But two Diors, so Yay! I love your list! :d
Chanel 22 parfum and coco parfum, yes. But I need more than ten spots! And lee wouldn’t agree to those two. 🙂
I’ve found I’ve been wearing two scents that I think of as cold, Narcisse Noir and L’Heure Bleu. If I had more than a sample, I’d probably wear a lot of Serge Lutens A La Nuit. Mitsouko is always in season with me, so I don’t count it as a winter scent.
I haven’t wanted to touch my leathers at all, and have been very sparing with the orientals. That said, I put on Rochas Alchimie this morning and found that I got a massive blast of musk from it, which I don’t normally smell first, so I’m thinking of breaking into the other untouched ones to see how their personalities change in winter.
Two great one for winter to be sure!!!
Oh Noooo! A critical decision so early in the day. And I thought I was going to suffer choosing which jeans to wear on (very sloppy) Casual Friday. Well, choices are hard for me, so I might cheap just a little… :). My list, in no particular order:
CdG Luxe
Musc Ravageur
Bois des Iles
A.L. Kretek
Rose Kashmirie
Neil Morris Dark Season
Incenses (listed yesterday)-collapsed category
Ambers (Sultan, Aurea, Russe, Blue)-see above
Bois de Copaiba
Jasmin de Nuit
Interesting slip…cheap v cheat. Should be living more of the former. Apparently am doing the latter…
Oh, I like your list! Kretek, I hadn’t heard of that one by AL. I did hear she is going to re-open her website,yeah!!!!
I can’t come up with ten. I can’t concentrate. I just put on Weil Zibeline for the first time, and it’s singing my name from the treacherous rocks. I hate it when I fall in love with a discontinued scent. Hate it. I just put it on ten or fifteen minutes ago. There’s still time for it to disappoint me. Anyway, it’s a good winter scent.
Some of my winter loves:
Caron Nuit de Noel
Frederic Malle Musc Ravageur
Fendi Theorema
Guerlain Winter Delice :d
Ava Luxe Cafe Noir :((
Tauer Le Maroc pour Elle
Cristiano Fissore Cashmere Woman
Damn, I continue to swoon over Zibeline. I should have known better.
Ruh-roh on the Zibeline! yeah, that one seems to fit your tastes. It doesn’t work for me as well,but it is defnitely beautiful!
I don’t have ten… I remain loyal to Parfum des Merveilles and Mitsouko. Sometimes I mix the three different versions of Merveilles together. The Eau des Merveilles layered with Elixer des Merveilles is surprisingly good. The Parfum has no equal(except Mitsouko). I will never tire of these two! Patty and March can take credit for my addiction…when I started reading your blog I tried Mitsouko and that was that.
I agree on the merveilleses, they do go together brilliantly or alone and are just perfection! Okay, they should be on the list. This is how top ten quickly turns into 100.
No Serge in the top 10? Blasphemy! 😉
I left a comment with a list of ten on Marina’s blog, but I think by the time I got here I’ve already changed my mind twice. I should probably add a Guerlain or two. I could pretty much live in a Guerlinade bottle these days.
I know! The problem with Top Ten lists is you can only have ten, and we had to agree on them. Chergui should be on that list. See, there’s the ones we forget!
I bought Jo Malone’s Pomegranate Noir a few days before Christmas (oh come on sometimes those few days are a long time to wait!) and I found it matched perfectly with my mom’s classy rich red and maroon decorations, the tree, the fire, all of it… On my trip to visit them I brought M7 and that worked well, for those days in between 🙂 I would’ve brought A*Men but it leaked the last time I traveled with it. Patchouli 24 blows my mind! I need it!
pom noir never clicked with me,too much patch, butI think I need to try it again. That’s been a really long time ago.
You do need patch 24. I think it’s just amazing and goes off the meter on comfort and cozy